Tobias, Joel, Jews, & Cretans

If you are familiar with the recent controversy that has arisen within what can only be referred to as “Reformed Youtube,” you may proceed in your reading. My hope is to try to help move the ball down the field a bit for both sides. If not, then you’ll want to find something else to spend your time reading.

Who Threw the First Stone?

Jon Harris, in one of his podcast episodes, offered a helpful perspective on the present conflict, stating something along the lines of, "Your assessment of who initiated the conflict will significantly shape how you view the situation." I believe this observation is accurate. Importantly, both Pastor Joel Webbon and Pastor Tobias Riemenschneider can present reasonable defenses for their actions. Given the circumstances, it seems the conflict arose and escalated naturally—perhaps even necessarily—without any clear evidence of malicious intent on either side.

Joel was the first to publicly name Tobias in this video, which understandably warranted a direct response from Tobias in the now-srubbed Eschatology Matters episode. However, prior to this, Tobias had shared the private “matchstick meme” on other podcasts and with fellow pastors (Wilson & White), leading to public comments that indirectly implicated Joel and his church. These comments created a situation where Joel felt compelled to respond, as the accusations left many assuming rightly he and his congregation were the intended targets. Tobias has explained that he shared the meme and the situation with respected and trustworthy pastors, seeking their guidance. It's also possible that he chose to address the matter publicly out of genuine concern about the growing antisemitism he perceives in "ostensibly reformed” churches.

Church Discipline and Lazy Cretans

Prerequisites

When we strip away the noise and controversy for a moment, there are foundational principles we should all be able to agree on.

First, church discipline is required for every unrepentant sin. Second, we must distinguish between the steps of church discipline and the final act of excommunication. While calling for discipline can eventually lead to excommunication if the sin remains unrepented, the two are not synonymous, and the semantics here—while often tedious—are crucial due to the current jawing back and forth between the parties involved. Finally, antisemitism is a sin. Therefore, it is deserving of church discipline and, if not repented of, would ultimately necessitate excommunication.

The current situation

This brings us to the specifics of this case. According to both Pastor Joel and Pastor Tobias, the church member in question has previously confessed to harboring antisemitic views. Joel claims he has addressed this issue and continues to walk with the individual on a path of repentance. Tobias, however, remains skeptical of the effectiveness of Joel’s approach and the sincerity of the member’s repentance.

A Real Divide: Lazy Cretans and Parastic Jews

A significant challenge lies in defining what constitutes antisemitism in this context. In his most recent response, Tobias has pointed to the congregant-in-question’s comments as evidence of ongoing sin. During the infamous Zoom call that included Joel, Tobias, the church member, and others, the church member was asked to explain the humor behind the controversial matchstick meme. In the call, the church member elaborated:

"The meme has two points: point number one is Jews don’t work—they live off usury. Now, people are going to say, ‘Well, not every single Jew’—of course not every single Jew—but I believe that usury is a very common sin among Jews because they don’t work—they live like parasites. And the second [point] is that the Holocaust didn’t happen. If you reread the meme, it doesn’t…” [The audio is then cut off by Tobias.]

Reading these comments can be initially difficult to stomach, even for me. These are not statements I would ever make because I do not hold these views. Yet it is a stereotype, and stereotypes—I’ve observed—often emerge from a kernel of truth, though they tend to be overgeneralized and distorted. But regardless of whether or not there is any validity to this man’s views on Jews, what complicates this issue is the biblical precedent for harsh generalizations.

When combating false teachers, Paul writes to Titus:

"They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, ‘Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.’ This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.” (Titus 1:11–14)

Here, Paul affirms a negative generalization about the Cretans, calling them liars, evil beasts, and lazy gluttons. Is this anti-Cretan? It is certainly critical of the group as a whole. Comparatively, a statement like, “Jews are always shrewd, manipulative, parasitic extortioners,” feels similar in its sweeping nature.

I grant there are important differences. For example, Paul isn’t expressing an original idea; he is quoting and affirming what a Cretan prophet said about his own people. But the similarities between Paul and Joel’s congregant need to be probed further to determine whether or not the latter’s statements are inherently sinful or only potentially sinful as the overflow of a hate-filled heart. Tobias appears convinced it is the latter and sees it as evidence of unrepentance. But we must grapple with this biblical precedent for harsh critique of entire groups. For years I’ve heard calls define holiness based on what Scripture reveals rather than modern cultural sentiments. If we’re to follow the examples of Ezekiel mocking the false prophets and Jesus mocking the Pharisees, why not Paul in his critique of the Cretans? This may be the heart of the matter and explain why the divide has grown instead of shrunk. I think, when Joel hears statements from his church member, he does not immediately assume that they are in themselves, sinfully anti-semetic. Tobias does, which leaves him understandably frustrated with Joel’s apparent inaction in dealing with open and ongoing sin.

I propose we all probe this issue more so that we can continue to define dividing lines and hopefully it can help bring resolution and restoration between the parties.

Who Are the Men in the Room?

As tensions continue to escalate, one thing becomes increasingly clear: intense rhetoric and the impugning of evil motives only serve to further divide us. When we descend into such language, we lose sight of the love that Scripture calls us to—the love that "hopes all things" and "believes all things" (1 Corinthians 13:7). Accusations of malicious intent, if not carefully weighed, can undermine the very unity that we ought to be striving for in the body of Christ. In this case, there is no room for assuming the worst of one another.

You should not apologize for the sins of others or for sins you didn’t commit. But it is equally important to accept responsibility when division and hostility grows and rises between you and your brother. Even if you haven’t personally caused the rift, you must still bear responsibility for it. Finger-pointing and blame-shifting are effeminate, no matter how boisterously and confidently you do it, or how measured and articulate do do it. Yet we’re seeing it everywhere. It’s the easy way out, but it doesn’t move us toward resolution.

There are many good defenders on Joel’s side that we want to preserve and encourage, and I believe this includes Joel himself. He deserves recognition for his commitment to his church and his unwillingness to throw his sheep under the buss. However, there are also toxic voices, those who engage in the kind of vitriol that fuels division—they have the red backgrounds and blue-eyes on X. These voices are not helpful, and not worthy of preserving (Hey look! An overgeneralized statement about a group of people that is stereotypically true but not exhaustively true!). This is where I think Joel, AD, and their ilk must step up. They need to do a better job of acknowledging this and, yes, even punching to the right from time to time.